The end of the Manual Transmission?

[mchastek]

We are seeing more and more manufacturers do away with the traditional manual transmission, replacing them with "SMG" - Sequential Manual Gearboxes - and the like. These newer transmissions operate with a computer-controlled clutch, and the driver shifts by pulling paddles on either side of the steering wheel.

The decline of the traditional manual transmission seems to be more of an issue in the US, and less so in the European countries.

What do you think? Will the manual transmission be "extinct" in the future?

[lcy037]

I had a chat with someone about this very topic. He seems to think the same way that sequential manual gearboxes will replace all manual transmissions such evident in the Ferrari Enzo and the Ferrari F430. Of course, he can't drive a stick.

I am opposed to this idea and prefer the manual transmission. I enjoy the feeling of shifting myself rather than letting a computer do it for me.

My two cents...

[TheNak]

I dont mind the Seq. Manual Gearbox shift so much, although I do enjoy the response of manual shifting in a true performance car. Seeing as how the Europeans are sticking to the manuals, and most high end performance cars are coming out of there, I dont think the manual will ever truly go away- but I do think well be seeing a lot more SMG systems in the future.

2 cents + 2 cents = 4 cents

[Viper 10]

Mark:

I tend to be a purest and believe that a manual transmission is essential to the full driving experience. It seems that technology is dumbing down most drivers to a level that was reserved to females and posers. Add this to ABS, traction control, heads up displays, rev limiters, intelligent highway crap, cupholders, Bluetooth phones, MP3, DVD players, PS2 and boom box ghetto blaster stereos, and what do you get? These are all distractions and tools to disconnect drivers from the driving experience and lure them into a false sense of security. Do you think that these bells and whistles will actually prevent dorks from wrapping their Enzo's and Vipers around tree's? Not for a second... unless you are drinking the Volvo/ BMW Kool-Aid.

One of the few exceptions to this discussion is a straight cut gear sequential tranny that is primarily designed for track use (read my lips... no synchromesh). I have been pondering adding a Quaife sequential and differential to my daily driver GTS (along with Penske coil-overs). The bottom line is that I am looking for ways to better connect me to my car and the road, so that I can further improve my driving skills without killing myself.

There's my virgin post and my $.03...

Brad

[Centerfield]

As gearboxes like the Audi DSG demonstrate that they can actually out-perform the traditional manual transmission, I think it makes the case for the manual less compelling. On the other hand, they're inexpensive - which virtually assures their place as the entry-level transmission.

[Paul12801]

In the future, gasoline engines will be extinct. We will probably be driving around in electrics. I think we are moving away from an emotional driving experience to something boring. Its only natural that we do away with all the fun things like MT's. :(

If only I lived in the 70's. . .

[gateway8425]

I tried taking my wife out of the manual tanny last year...No success.She loves it even though there is pain in her left knee area that I have to massage from the use of the clutch. Also I think manual tranny will always be around based on the interest I see daily from the "echo" generation kids. They still come in asking for it.

[mchastek]

I tried taking my wife out of the manual tanny last year...No success.She loves it even though there is pain in her left knee area that I have to massage from the use of the clutch. Also I think manual tranny will always be around based on the interest I see daily from the "echo" generation kids. They still come in asking for it.

I agree Eric. I see that you work at a Honda dealership. I applaud Honda for having a decent number of models in their lineup that offer manual transmissions.

[mchastek]

One interesting thing to note is that Mercedes-Benz seems to be offering more manual transmissions these days. In the past, I believe they only offered a manual transmission in the SLK. However, they now offer 6-speed manual transmissions in the C class as well. It surprises me that the AMG models are automatics. MB has several cars in the 500-600hp range, and they all have automatic transmissions.

[Viper 10]

One interesting thing to note is that Mercedes-Benz seems to be offering more manual transmissions these days. In the past, I believe they only offered a manual transmission in the SLK. However, they now offer 6-speed manual transmissions in the C class as well. It surprises me that the AMG models are automatics. MB has several cars in the 500-600hp range, and they all have automatic transmissions.

Mark:

This same philosophy applies to Audi's top end vehicles. They do not come with a manual transmission option (even the "S" class car like the S8). It is very sad, because these options are offered in European versions. Why don't they think American's want these options?

Brad

[Ann]

I'm a big fan of the automatic transmission, gents. I wonder what the gender breakdown would be on this question. If most women are like me (not to say they are)...and since women influence 80% of car buying decisions, it may be what is driving the extinction of the manual.

[kristi]

Mark Chastek (the administrator) told me that many people who were once manual loyalists have now become fans of paddle shifting--is anyone here one of those? I'm curious to hear your views if you've gone either way on it--hated it or loved it after trying it out.

[kristi]

I'm a big fan of the automatic transmission, gents. I wonder what the gender breakdown would be on this question. If most women are like me (not to say they are)...and since women influence 80% of car buying decisions, it may be what is driving the extinction of the manual.

Ann, I'm a woman, and I truly enjoy the feeling of manual transmissions (some moreso than others...depends on the engineering and the resultant drive and performance). I've always felt more in control of the car, felt more able to maneuver out of dangerous situations (coming to a quick stop without relying entirely upon the brakes which are apt to lock up, skid, etc.), and I just love the involvement required on my part to drive the car. It keeps me "driving" instead of "commuting". Know what I mean? Commuting is a depressing, dreary, not looked forward to kind of situation, while driving can be exhilarating, fun and adrenaline pumping.

I think many women don't really get the chance to learn how to drive manuals and therefore never get to know the joy--all my girlfriends are impressed that I even know how--and it shouldn't be that way!

I'd love to hear your feelings on why you enjoy automatics! Maybe there's something I'm missing... :)

[Rennsport Calgary]

I've just spent two days with a 2002 BMW M3 cabrio with the SMG gearbox.....and all I can say is that the paddles work perfectly......is it an automatic ?.....no, but it 'can" be driven like one.....

This system and the F1 from Ferrari are the best compromises and blend of both concepts IMHO. That is the direction I'd want to see more carmakers take rather than continuing to use what we consider true automatic transmissions.

[wheelyneil]

Just to add my 2p worth at this late stage...

To the best of my knowledge, none of the current crop of 'sequential' and paddle shift gearboxes are not proper sequential gearboxes. Most of them are pretty conventional automatic transmissions that have the usual stick replaced with a bit of electronics and a couple of up/down switches. This type is nothing more than a toy. Gear shift times are very slow and they have all the power sapping characteristics of an auto 'box. The BMW 'SMG' is slightly better in that it is a manual gearbox with a clutch. However, it is just an adaptation of one of their existing 'H-pattern' 'boxes and uses 3 sepatate actuators to move the selector rods - under electronic control of course.

The true sequential gearbox will probably never be seen on road cars because they are a pain in the butt! All motorcycles have proper sequential gearboxes, but bike riders tend to be more enthusiastic than car drivers and they can cope with sequential 'boxes. The average car driver just wouldn't put up with them. A true sequential transmission works quite differently from a normal 'H-pattern' box. The selector rods/forks move in the same way, but they are are moved back and forth by running in grooves around the selector 'barrel'. These grooves deviate around the barrel's circumpherence and as the barrel rotates the appropriate rods/fork is pushed back or forth as required. The operation of the stick by the driver usually operates some form of ratchet mechanism that rotates the barrel a set amount per shift. Each index position of the ratchet cannot be skipped and each gear has to be selected in sequence - there can be no shortcuts! To get the benefits of a true sequential 'box, you nust also ditch they syncromesh in favour of dog engagement - something that would be totally impractical on a road car.

To get paddle shift on a true SMG requires that the stick is operated by either pneumatics or hydraulics under the control of sophisticated 'closed loop' electronics. F1 race cars, in the quest for even quicker shift times, generally use a hydraulic motor to index the selector barrel. Gear change times in F1 race cars is typically in the order of 5mS! F1 gearbox designers are now experimenting with dog-less shift mechanisms where the gears are locked onto the output shaft by hydraulic pressure within it. The pressure is great enough to expand the shaft and lock the gear onto it. The benefits of this system are that shift times are down to practically zero and hence no need to interrupt engine power for the duration of the shift!

A good description of a true sequential gearbox can be seen at www.howstuffworks.com

For gearbox related electronics, see http://www.geartronics.co.uk

[Viper 10]

Just to add my 2p worth at this late stage...

To the best of my knowledge, none of the current crop of 'sequential' and paddle shift gearboxes are not proper sequential gearboxes. Most of them are pretty conventional automatic transmissions that have the usual stick replaced with a bit of electronics and a couple of up/down switches. This type is nothing more than a toy. Gear shift times are very slow and they have all the power sapping characteristics of an auto 'box. The BMW 'SMG' is slightly better in that it is a manual gearbox with a clutch. However, it is just an adaptation of one of their existing 'H-pattern' 'boxes and uses 3 sepatate actuators to move the selector rods - under electronic control of course.

The true sequential gearbox will probably never be seen on road cars because they are a pain in the butt!

To get the benefits of a true sequential 'box, you nust also ditch they syncromesh in favour of dog engagement - something that would be totally impractical on a road car.

To get paddle shift on a true SMG requires that the stick is operated by either pneumatics or hydraulics under the control of sophisticated 'closed loop' electronics. F1 race cars, in the quest for even quicker shift times, generally use a hydraulic motor to index the selector barrel. Gear change times in F1 race cars is typically in the order of 5mS! F1 gearbox designers are now experimenting with dog-less shift mechanisms where the gears are locked onto the output shaft by hydraulic pressure within it. The pressure is great enough to expand the shaft and lock the gear onto it. The benefits of this system are that shift times are down to practically zero and hence no need to interrupt engine power for the duration of the shift!

A good description of a true sequential gearbox can be seen at www.howstuffworks.com (http://www.howstuffworks.com/)

For gearbox related electronics, see http://www.geartronics.co.uk (http://www.geartronics.co.uk/)

Neil:

Great write up on sequentials...

To add to his points, I completely agree with his assessment of the loosely used marketing term of "sequential" transmissions. I have driven two real sequential transmissioned cars with a Hewland and a Quaife sequential gearbox. Both are dog-cut (straight cut) gears and they were very painful to drive.

I was considering (at one point) of putting a Quaife sequential into my daily driver Dodge Viper. I went down to Quaife and talked about it at length. Throughout our discussions the folks at Quaife were tryingtheir best to disuade me from doing this conversion. Finally, they told me to take one of their cars equipped with their racing sequentials out on the street. I have been driving for quite a whiel and have had plenty of seat time innon-synchromeshed cars (which were mostly English sports cars... for some strange reason) The word painful is being nice.

Each shift hit so hard that it rocked me to my kidneys. The shifts were made via a straightline up and down shift pattern. The speed of the shifts were much faster and more precise and I never had to worry about missing a gear shift. The clutch was only used to get you going in first gear and downshifting. Needess to say, this would be totally punishing and impractical for street use in any kind of traffic.

The Hewland was very similar to the Quaife, though I have not tried the electronically actuated Hewland paddle shifter. From what I understand, Hewland does all of the sequntial transmissions for the Ferrari race cars (even though Ferrari will never admit it and Hewland will say "no comment"). From what I have seen of the drivability of cars like the Ferrari Enzo, I cannot believe that they are using a true dog cut geared sequential. They seem to be way too easy to drive. Does anyone know the details on the transmissions on these super exotics? Does the McLaren F1 run a sequntial transmission?

On the other hand, the Chrysler ME 412 has a double carbon clutched tramsission that seems to be an electronic racing sequential transmission. In talking to the test driver, it seems that this transmission is practical for both the street and the track... but very expensive to maintain.

Thanks for your input Neil. You obviously know your trannies. Do you work for Hewland or Quaife (since they are both based in the UK)?

I have also driven the new so called "sequentials" and the shift-by-wire cars (like BMW Porsche and Audi) and I have to say that I was not impressed with any of them. If you had any aspirations of tracking a car with these transmissions and competing with manuals, it won't happen. The delays on the shifts, combined with the gas and brake-by-wire really stinks when it comes to performance driving. I would think that you have to completely change your driving style to accomodate these irritating attributes.

There's my $.02... how does that work out when I convert to pence?

Brad